Podcast

Jill Switzer walked into court representing a male defendant. The judge assumed he was the lawyer and she was the social worker.
That experience is one of many behind the candid voice readers know from Above the Law’s Old Lady Lawyer column. In this conversation with Neal Goldstein, Jill talks about being underestimated, questioning the profession’s assumptions, and speaking up without waiting for permission.

When Neal asks whether her experiences gave her more freedom to speak, her answer comes immediately: “I speak whether I have freedom or not.”

Approaching 50 years in the legal profession, Jill has worked as a deputy district attorney, solo practitioner, in-house counsel, and mediator. Before law school, she worked in broadcast journalism. Her career has taken her through very different workplaces, but some questions have followed her throughout: Who gets an opportunity? Who gets taken seriously? And what happens when lawyers care more about appearances than the work?

Being welcomed in one room and underestimated in another
Jill’s first experience as a prosecutor complicates the story people might expect. In a district attorney’s office in the late 1970s, she found leaders who hired women because they believed women made excellent trial lawyers. She describes having room to grow and take on responsibility. Other encounters, including being mistaken for someone other than counsel, revealed assumptions that her experience and qualifications did not erase.

The law school name that followed her into job interviews
Jill felt she belonged in law school. Looking for her first job was a different experience. She recalls encountering skepticism because she had not attended an elite school. Neal and Jill discuss the profession’s attachment to pedigree, the expense of legal education, and the opportunities available to people pursuing law as a second career. They also consider what communities lose when people who want to serve them cannot access a legal education.

The difference between confidence and an ego that gets in the way
Asking for help never felt especially complicated to Jill. If she needed an answer, she asked. The possibility that someone might think she looked foolish mattered less than getting the information she needed. That attitude opens a conversation about professional insecurity, the pressure to appear knowledgeable, and the problems lawyers create when they cannot admit what they do not know.
A mentor who shared everything

Before she became a lawyer, Jill worked with a newsroom mentor who refused to hoard knowledge. His memorable explanation for teaching her the job stayed with her for decades. She reflects on the supervisors who helped her develop, the difference between generosity and control, and why she left a position when a micromanaging boss would not give her enough room to do her work.

The professional cost of a moment online

Neal and Jill discuss the pressure created by social media, including the images of wealth and success that can leave younger lawyers feeling behind. Jill also challenges lawyers who risk years of work and professional standing for the satisfaction of posting something reckless. Their conversation connects online behavior with a larger concern: what has happened to civility among people whose work requires disagreement?

What a text message cannot tell you

When a younger lawyer sent Jill a complicated ethics question by text, Jill asked her to call. She wanted a conversation because further questions could reveal issues the original message had missed. Neal and Jill explore the value of those exchanges, the limits of digital communication, and the relationships that help lawyers exercise judgment when the answer is not obvious.

What comes after the career you know
As Jill considers moving to inactive status, she is still working out what the next stage of her life will look like. Writing will remain part of it. So will a conviction that health, family, and friendships deserve attention throughout a legal career.

The conversation closes with her remembrance of a law school friend who continued practicing after becoming blind, and whose absence she still feels every day.

This episode is for lawyers who have been underestimated, felt judged by their credentials, hesitated to ask a question, or wondered how much of themselves they have to suppress to fit into the profession.

Find Jill Switzer’s Old Lady Lawyer columns at Above the Law.
https://abovethelaw.com/author/jillsw…

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